A couple weeks ago I blogged about a study published by The Barna Group which found that while “more than seven out of ten Americans (72%) claim they have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is important in their life today…” only 17% of adults said that “a person’s faith is meant to be developed mainly by involvement in a local church.”
That sparked some very strong opinions on both sides of the issue. On one hand we received comments like this: “I have been a non-church going Christian for over a year, and I can assure you that when it is done in the will of God, it is anything but a problem.” We also received comments from the opposing viewpoint: “I hear so many people defend not going to church. If you notice their defense is full of holes.”
Can the virtual church (online audio sermons, video services, Christian discussion groups, etc) replace the physical church?
Give us your opinion in this week’s poll and post your comments here.
In His Service,
Paul Steinbrueck
OurChurch.Com
65 Comments
Hebrews 10:22-25. let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another.
God by His Holy Spirit is saying through the writer of the book of Hebrews for us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. This was said as a commandment. Our Father knows what happens when we get out of fellowship with other believers. I know of many cases where people let the cares of this world come first and then they quit coming to Christian services , and the next thing you know they just slid away from God. This is not God’s will for us. He wants better for His children. But in order for us to have better we have to follow His precepts, and one very important precept is not to forsake the assembling, or we might say the gathering of ourselves together. This is not just Sunday morning church service although this is certainly the beginning of fellowship, us coming together. I think I should make it clear that the church is not an organization or a building. The church is the body of Christ. Any time Christians gather we should have fellowship. Something happens when we fellowship. We share the very life of God. There is a sharing of God’s life when we come together. Fellowship is much more than coming together for a church service or function, although there is nothing wrong with that. True fellowship is God’s life flowing from one believer to another.
Zoë, is the Greek word for the life of God, the life as God has it, that which the Father has in Himself and has given to the incarnate Son to have within Himself. We are sharing Zoë. Sharing the very life of God with one another. Have you ever noticed that when you are gathered together you can feel that life, you get edified, and you have the opportunity to edify others. This is that intimate sharing of the very life of God. The Word of God tells us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, God has very good reasons for this.
One dictionary definition says that the Greek Word for fellowship means to make alive, and to give life. We are to be givers and sharers of God’s life. We are to be sharers of the very life of God. We are suppose to share this life with others. How are we to do this?
Firstly we can’t if we are not coming together, can we? As Hebrews says; And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another.
God would not tells us to do this if it were not His will. We can’t stir up one another or exhort one another if we don’t come together can we? This is a vital part of fellowship, exhorting one another and stirring up one another. You might think why is this so important. Because if we don’t, we aren’t doing what God is telling us to do. If we aren’t doing what God is telling us to do, we aren’t going to fulfill His will. We will lose out on a blessing, and others will lose out as well because of our disobedience.
Acts 2:46- 47. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people, and the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
We see that the disciples were in one accord in the temple or as we would say today; in church, also they were sharing meals together in their own houses. It says with a glad heart. The result of their fellowship together was the Lord added to the church daily. I do not think this was a coincidence. Having fellowship allowed God’s life to be shared, and gave the Holy Spirit an opportunity to move amongst the body, and the Lord added to the church daily.
Col:3:16: Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Here is another instance where we see that we are to admonish and teach one another with the Word of God, along with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. We also see that the gifts of the Holy Spirit can come and should come into operation under these circumstances. We have to give the Holy Spirit an opportunity to move in and through us.
If we don’t, He won’t. He will never come in uninvited, only with our permission.
1Cor:14:26: 26. How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
You will notice it says whenever we come together. Not if we come together. This is when we as believers come together, this is not talking about an evangelistic service, where you are there to share the Gospel to the lost, this is for believers only. The lost wouldn’t understand some the things that go on in this type of service. This is for the edification of the body of Christ.
— New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Ephesians 4:16 by whom the whole Body is fitted and joined together, every joint adding its own strength, for each individual part to work according to its function. So the body grows until it has built itself up in love.
We have a job to do within the body of Christ. We are suppose to build one another up first. How are we going to be effective in the kingdom of God if we are not first effective to one another. The answer to this is, we can’t. We are each a part of the body of Christ, and each part is necessary for the whole of the body to work together properly. You might think, what can I do. I’m not a preacher. The Word doesn’t say the preacher will build the body, it says every joint adding its own strength. In other words we each contribute to the building up of the body that we are a part of. We each have God given gifts and talents the Lord has given to us to be a blessing and to minister to the rest of the body of Christ. If one person doesn’t do his or her job, that means that someone else will have to do that job for them, or it won’t get done. You don’t have to be a Pastor or a teacher to edify the body. Get before the Lord and find your talents. Maybe it is in the choir, maybe you are good working with children, or maybe you are a great organizer. Whatever your part is, it is necessary for the body of Christ and for the whole body to function properly. So the body grows until it has built itself up in love. When we get to the point where we are all walking in the place God has given for us to walk in, then and only then will we see maturity within the whole body. The whole body grows together, and the whole body build itself up together in the love of God.
It is not supposed to be the work of just some select few. We all have a vital part to play in this process. It is also vital that we admonish and teach one another with the Word of God. The importance of this can’t be minimized. If we aren’t doing our job, who will?
1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
Romans 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
The whole Body is fitted and joined together, every joint adding its own strength, for each individual part to work according to its function. I can’t tell somebody else what their function is within the body of Christ, only that it is so important not only for you individually but for the body as a whole to work together in fulfilling the call of God individually and collectively. We are in the last days. Jesus is coming soon, and He has called us to do a job together. One person can’t do it alone. Our pastors can’t and are not supposed to do it alone. They are there for leadership and guidance, but we are suppose to do the work of the ministry.
Ephesians 4:11-15 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head Christ.
We see here there are 5 main offices within the body of Christ that help equip the saints. But read on and you will see that the reason they are there is to equip the saints so that the saints can do the work of the ministry. The New Revised Standard with Apocrypha says it like this — Ephesians 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ.
The 5 fold ministry is there to equip you to do the work of ministry, and this ministry is the building up of the body of Christ. This is contrary to what many people believe. People say that is what I pay my pastor to do. NO it’s not. I said, NO IT IS NOT. We are in this together. We have to succeed together. Let’s reach for the high calling in God.
Philippians 3: 14-16. I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
Matthew 18:20 (NIV)
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.
I am just not sure that me + my computer = 2 in God’s eyes.
I hear it said all the time from other people that “I believe in God but he is everywhere and I can pray in my own house just as good as I could at church,” or one of the all time stand by’s “the church is full of hypocrites and I just don’t want to be apart of that.”
I know that the devil himself believes in God but he doesn’t care worship in the church and if a few hypocrites or bad people keep you from fellowship and worship with other believers then your going to have a hard time going to work or school or the market or wherever else you want to go because there are certainly more of them in these places.
And who knows who you are talking to on the other end of the computer and what there real motive is.
The internet certainly has its uses and can be another wonderful tool used to spread the word and truth of our Lord but it should never take the place of the physical church.
In my humble opinion, there is no way that a virtual church or group of any kind should keep a person from church. The physical church as we know it is made of us humans and we by nature are sinful thus.. there is no “perfect church” but it is the closest thing to the body of Christ we can find.
The bottom line to me is just this… Jesus himself went to church and so did his disciples who were hand chosen by Jesus. If they went… so should I.
Luke 4:16 says “When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyuhood home, he went – as usual – to the synagogue on the Sabbath and stood up to read the Scriptures.”
WWJD
The perfect Son of God, who is God himself, felt the need to go to church services every week, knowing he was walking into a room full of sinners – including the person who was preaching the message – WOW! If he needed it, (and we know he couldn’t get any closer to God than he already was) then I sure know I need it. Because I, in my imperfectness in this life on earth, don’t come anywhere close to being like him. (But I do know that one day I will walk along the shores of heaven holding his hand, where I WILL finally be like him.)
Besides the fact that I love it (church) – I am surrounded by people who are in the same boat. We can relate to one another (obviously I don’t CLOSELY relate to every single person in my church) about what is going on in our lives, and give each other suggestions on how God may have helped us through similar situations. I don’t believe that going to church is the ONLY way to hear from God, I do read my bible, and attend a bible study, and visit with Christian friends, and listen to Christian music, and read Christian books, and look up Christian information on the internet – I try to hear from God in every way possible.
But oh how I love my church, I wish we had church services every day. We are all (Christians) just sinners, trying to do the best we can and be a light to the dark world we are currently living in, while still sinning – and accepting each other just the way we are!
In my personal opinion, if you don’t go to church regularly – and absolutely hate missing it when you can’t be there, you just haven’t found one you REALLY LOVE yet. Don’t give up – there is one out there made especially for you! And you! And you! And you!
Something to ponder…..
Church: ekklesia means: a called out assembly. Let’s define called; keleuo: ordered.
The church is as Jesus said `My ordered out assembly’. Ordered out of what? The kingdom of darkness and translated into the kingdom of Light. It is the many membered body of Christ. Our culturalistic knoweldge of the gospel of the kingdom and the bible, has had us bound! I have a question…is God a Spirit? Is He Eternal? Can you place a limit upon Him? Most would answer,yes, yes and well, no, of course not! and yet that is exactly what we have done. Where two or more are gathered in My name, there am I in the midst. Is there time or distance in the Eternal realm? Some would chuckle at that question, but that is exactly what you have done. Limited Him to your time and your distance.
So wherever two or more are gathered together, regardless of time or distance there AM I in the midst. Is the Spirit of God so small in our estimation that He is not able to teach us? Is He so weak that He is not able to cross the barriers of time and distance or sound? He is Eternal Light! ~Selah
If I am praying for someone who needs delivered via telephone or internet and they are set free, has the kingdom of God been made manifest? If one I am praying for via same technology that needs healed and is healed, has the kingdom of God been made manifest? Has He made Himself known in our midst? If I am inspired by Holy Spirit to share something over the telephone(just using these as examples) or internet and someone on the other end is lifted up, built up, encouraged, comforted, has the kingdom of God been made manifest?
We have had our whole focus wrong. The focus is Holy Spirit who is God, dwelling in us as individuals and as a whole. It is Christ in you the hope of glory. We are His temple, His abiding place. Not buildings. He manifests Himself BECAUSE we are their, BECAUSE we are the carriers of His glory( which is He Himself). Why would we limit Him to those things which are temporal? The temporal things are given to us by Him to establish His kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. If they pass away, He is still Christ in you the hope of glory. He wasn’t limited before the technology and He isn’t limited too it. Whatever means He places in our hands, let it be used to build up His body and establish His kingdom, His will on earth as it is in heaven. But don’t stop their! Establish His kingdom in the marketplace, establish His kingdom in your neighborhood, establish His kingdom in your city, state, nation and beyond! Make known His deeds among the people. Heal the sick, cast out devils, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give to the widow and fatherless. Let His righteousness be established in the earth. Through you, the church, the body of Christ. BE the Church!
His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, His ways, higher than our ways…it’s time to get on our face and seek to know Him, intimately, the Greater One Who dwells within us!
We are the blessed generation of the Last Days Church. Jesus told us all very plainly that where two or more are gathered in His name there he shall be also. The message of salvation is a simple message, nothing added and nothing taken away.
No building or denomination required…
Technology is not an evil thing, it is only since the mid 1800’s that mankind has entered into what is called the industrial era. In 1879, Thomas Edison was blessed with the discovery through his own perseverence in his faith in God after failing 10,000 times, that through this what many see as a simple discovery today as a light bulb, all other technology that has exceeded to the power of 10,000 to present day. The very light that you see in your computer screen is to God’s Glory. And it is this era and present age of mankind that God has ordained as the generation to see many wonderful things.
So yes, I can spiritually see how the internet and virtural advancedment of todays church is for the Glory of Jesus Christ .. and the continued spread throughout all nations of the gospel of Christ. This very technology that we are
all using now is a gift to us from God to send into places of this world that are hungry for Jesus Christ. So reach out as far as this wonderful tool of the computer can reach for the Glory of God…
God Never Breaks a Promise…..We are all being used for a greater purpose than what we can ever realize through this Blessed Gift that God has ordained for this generation to have….and we are that generation.
many excuses are made about not being apart of a local church, but the teaching of the bible is clear that we should not forsake the assembling of our selves together.
Teaching comes, should come from the local church fror the ministry gifts and their operations in and outside the church.
Tru many have been run away from the church because of the abuse and the
manipulation by some wolves in sheep clothing,masquerading as pastors scattering God’s people.
But that is no excuse foe obeying the wor of God,we are responsible to be obeident and trust God to guide us by His Spirit to the church we need to attend to grow and be disciples or discipled.
Everything must start & end with what The Bible says! IF, and that is a very
word, to some, if you read the Bible, it very painly establishes the CHURCH
as the place to go for instruction, growth spiritually, fellowship, worship
corporately, doctrine & even correction.
The BIBLE very plainly says that CHRIST is the head of the church , he’s coming back after his bride ..THE CHURCH!
That’s what the BIBLE says! Many people have been saved outside the CHURCH, in all types of settings , but the BIBLE very plainly states the CHURCH
is what JESUS chose as the place to be! Can going to CHURCH & just belonging
to a CHURCH save you? CERTAINLY NOT! IS the CHURCH perfect…NO..NO..NO
Read the BIBLE! If you are a LONE Ranger, if you have been hurt by someone
in a CHURCH, do what the BIBLE says! FORGIVE them. It’s in the BIBLE! Don’t
forsake the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some do, it’s in the BIBLE!
The CHURCH is a body of believers who are on a spiriitual journey, not perfect,
but we are credited with rightousness through JESUS’ blood. We’re “CHRISTIANS under Construction, we’re not complete, continually striving
in the LORD. He’s still working on me, to make me what I ought to be!
In all sincerity, it doesn’t matter what I believe if it doesn’t agree with what the BIBLE says! You can be very sincere, but sincerely wrong! And I have been there many times in my walk with GOD. So I have a choice, to repent, forgive,
get up and go again, or I can become bitter , opinated, hard-headed, whatever
you want to call it.
I worship God many times during the week, I sing to him, I glorify him, all outside the church. But NOTHING takes the place of worship with my brothers & sisters in the LORD, as we come together in accord to glorify him, in the place he has ordered, the CHURCH” And fellowship as we worship, we pray together, we pray for one another, we cry together, we marry our kids together, we bury our loved ones together, we celebrate life together & one day soon we’re going sit around the banquet table in heaven, as CHRIST presents his BRIDE…
THE CHURCH
I invite you to take a fresh look at what the BIBLE says about the CHURCH!
That is & must be the final authority!
Should we go to church (not just on sunday’s but everytime the door opens)…yes!!! Why? There are soo many reasons. Many of the comments posted above not only quote scripted, but give the reasons!!
The Technology in the church, the “e-church”, or however you want to call it should never replace going to church. It should only be there to enhance the church. For instance: Podcasts. I have a pda and have personally recorded prophesies given to me by prophets and prophetess so I could replay them anytime I wanted. Same for a service. 1 Timothy 4:15 says “Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all.” Meditate simply means to think of what God’s saying or doing. Meditate on the scripture every day/hour/minute. What better way then to listen to yesterday’s sermon again. Or last weeks. Or last months. Or last years.
You can never take something of God’s, replace it with something man-made, and expect to get anything good out of it for a long length of time.
When in doubt, read the scripture, and pray that God will give you an answer.
The Internet (a.k.a. World Wide Web) is NOT a virtual church, it’s simply a medium of communication–nothing more, nothing less. As such, it can be a vehicle for righteousness or unrighteousness, but like music, videos, and printed words is predominantly used to promote unrighteousness.
Church (big “C”) is the universal body of true believers which spans both time and space (a relationship), while the church (little “c”) is a fellowship of some localized group of those believers. The picture of both Church and church in the Bible emphasizes personal interaction and accountability, mutual support (both material and Spiritual), and and underlying love and concern resulting from “fellowship” and personal “relationship.”
While I’m all for every Christian utilizing every available tool to grow and learn and communicate their personal faith, if I’m unemployed, separated, battling addiction, or dying of cancer I won’t be looking for an email from some anonymous “virtual” church pastor to comfort me–I will expect (and will surely receive) hugs, kisses, financial help, prayers, and face-to-face counseling from my good friends in my local body. When I cry, they will cry. When I rejoice, they will rejoice. They know me. They’ve been with me through both the good and bad; none of you guys know me from Adam.
Below is an excerpt from a warning posted on the following link:
http://www.watchmanreport.com/
We are the Church! Whether we assemble in a building or not. It is the duty of every believer to press into a personal relationship with God….to Know for ourselves what the Bible says, what the Gospel of Christ is. It does not matter who knows us, as long as God knows us. Consider the news flash below…its already happening, but its not on the news! Are you ready?
A Pastor has come forward to blow the whistle on a nationwide FEMA program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to “obey the government” in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.
[begin quote]quote removed due to excessive length[end quote]
It causes one to wonder how much longer the internet will be open? How much of what we think is so good, is simply feeding our flesh, promoting spiritual complacency, and teaching outright deceptions?
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. We can read the Voice of the Martyrs, reports of persecution in other lands…but do we ever consider that it could happen here? to us? We all need to seek the face of God and prepare our hearts, that we may be righteous (in right standing with God). Our faith is going to be tested, may we pass the test.