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PAGE 29 DISCUSSION ON NONVIOLENCE
Response from "K.As."
Dec 04, 2002 12:43:14 am
A statement was made to the effect that the statements of patriots were being put down as misrepresentations of God's Word in order to bolster the "violent Christian" side. I do not believe that these statements were necessarily put down for that reason, and I also do not think that those quotes were from men trying to use the Bible for their own gain. Thank you cadet for putting these quotes down for us. Also, thank you for voluntarily becoming disciplined so that you can keep others disciplined later on!
As long as America has stayed true to her roots of righteousness our government has worked, our nation has been blessed, and the rest of the world has benefitted from it all. Like it or not, one of the major benefits to the world has come from our intervention in wars. We were willing to spill our own blood for others. Does this remind you of anything Jesus said about that?
P.S. In the interest of good, Christian discussion I wish that the personal attacks and petty, grade school insults would stop! Respect for a person takes a long time to build up (especially in a forum such as this), but one childish reply can ruin all the good done.
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Response from "K.As."
Dec 04, 2002 12:52:20 am
Well, my "P.S." was sort of addressed while I was posting it so I guess we must all talk/answer to the same all-knowing God!
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Resonse from R.B.
Dec 04, 2002 1:44:55 am
I have been very busy lately and unable to spend much time on the forum. Even tonight I was just able to skim the discussion so I don't want to make any comments about what is being said. I would say that the "arguments" seem to be getting a bit nasty. Just something to think about. I just wanted to let everyone know that I was still trying to keep up with the discussion.
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Response from C
TeacherOverland
Dec 04, 2002 6:48:31 pm
Promiselander, I had no idea that was your church. I came across that website on some other occasion (I'm not sure how), but never connected it with you. I'm gonna block out some time and look at it again. If I'm every vacationing in your area, I'll be sure to drop in.
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Response from LD
Dec 05, 2002 5:23:54 pm
quote:
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Rather than face that fact, some seemingly become more repulsed to the way of peace, sacrifice, forgiveness, mercy and suffering, and become more vocal in their commitment to kill in the name of the State, provided it is the United States and provided it is the killing for which they have personal preferences. It is the same attitude which drives the Irish "Christians", Lebanese "Christians", Roman "Christians" and a handful of others who kill in the name of Jesus, in line with the Crusaders of the middle ages who killed Mid Easterners in the name of Jesus. We can sit here under the waving of Old Glory and see the absurdity of these other conclaves of violent Christians, but figure that Romans 13 supposedly gives American Christians the right to take up arms and kill in the name of God. It is easy for us to see the error of their way, just as the rest of the world sees the error of the violent American Christian's way. But they are wrong of course and we are right.
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I must protest that no one here has ever said to kill in the name of God. Doing that is heresy of the highest order. Someone has to kill on the behalf of the state, though, since God told the state to do that, and I have no problem with Christians doing that. The state is mandated to be violent on occasion, while the church is mandated to not be violent. I am a part of both, so I will be violent in the name of my country (when needed) and peaceful in the name of Christ always.
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Response from Promiselander
Dec 05, 2002 7:44:39 pm
In response to the events of the last few days on this forum I have a few thoughts.
Bro. Kevin Askew; concerning statements I made about Patriotic documents you said...
quote:
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A statement was made to the effect that the statements of patriots were being put down as misrepresentations of God's Word in order to bolster the "violent Christian" side. I do not believe that these statements were necessarily put down for that reason, and I also do not think that those quotes were from men trying to use the Bible for their own gain.
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I am really sorry, but I have no idea what you are saying. I have gone back over my post and saw nowhere that I said partriots statements were put down as "misrepresentation." I also could not find where I said that the quotes were from men "trying to use the Bible for their own gain." If you show me where I said these things, I can try to rectify a problem I created. By the way, I use these same quotes in my own teaching and preaching, but I don't base my actions on them. I base my life and actions solely on the Word of God. I guess that I figured that the documentation which was offered by our Bro. Cadet Jeffrey was for the purpose of supporting his position, otherwise they would not have been in this forum. It makes sense to me, but maybe I am the only one who sees it.
You also said in reference to men who have served in the military and have been willing to die for our country,
quote:
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We were willing to spill our own blood for others. Does this remind you of anything Jesus said about that?
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Well, I guess you are pointing out that we as Christians ought to be willing to die for our brother and fellow man. I couldn't agree more. But exactly what did you have in mind that Jesus said concerning we Christians spilling someone else's blood. I don't remember that verse. Help me out with that one.
One more statement you made was,
quote:
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P.S. In the interest of good, Christian discussion I wish that the personal attacks and petty, grade school insults would stop! Respect for a person takes a long time to build up (especially in a forum such as this), but one childish reply can ruin all the good done.
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I don't really know, but I am guessing you are applying this statement to me. The content and the context of the arguments were neither petty, grade school insults nor childish replies. I also know that they were not keyed-in haphazardly. They are well thought through and valid arguments. I am sorry if they missed their mark. If on the other hand you are speaking up in my behalf, thank you for your concern, but in these situations I just take the worst that my opponent throws at me and try not to cry too loudly.
I appreciate that you came back with a follow up to the P.S., I am just sorry that you misread my tone and intent. I still stand wholeheartedly by my statements and am willing to correct myself when I am shown my error.
Bro. Randy, I am sorry that you think the arguments are "nasty." Maybe they are. We are actually dealing with a nasty subject, and I certainly don't whitewash the issue. If you are thinking that I am being nasty, I am sorry for that. On the other hand, I can assure you that I am not being nasty.
Bro. Larry, I did say
quote:
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some...become more vocal in their commitment to kill in the name of the State, provided it is the United States and provided it is the killing for which they have personal preferences.
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And I did say,
quote:
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It is the same attitude which drives the Irish "Christians", Lebanese "Christians", Roman "Christians" and a handful of others who kill in the name of Jesus, in line with the Crusaders of the middle ages who killed Mid Easterners in the name of Jesus.
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And I did say,
quote:
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We can sit here under the waving of Old Glory and see the absurdity of these other conclaves of violent Christians, but figure that Romans 13 supposedly gives American Christians the right to take up arms and kill in the name of God.
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And then you said,
quote:
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I must protest that no one here has ever said to kill in the name of God. Doing that is heresy of the highest order. Someone has to kill on the behalf of the state, though, since God told the state to do that, and I have no problem with Christians doing that. The state is mandated to be violent on occasion, while the church is mandated to not be violent. I am a part of both, so I will be violent in the name of my country (when needed) and peaceful in the name of Christ always.
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I am not sure why my statements bother you. From my point of view, if God tells the State to kill and I believe God expects me to take up arms and kill at the behest of the State, then I am killing in the Name of God; that is, under the authority of God. "In the name of" means under the authority of. (Don't you just hate to end a sentence in a preposition?)
Actually, if I was one of you killing Christians I would much rather kill in the Name of God than in the name of the State or anything else for that matter.
Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
1Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Of course these verses do not apply here, but I didn't have anything better to do with my time than just use Scripture out of context. Then again, maybe the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He used the words whatsoever and, do all in the name of... and, do all to the glory of God. JUST A THOUGHT.
To all concerned, I have been waiting to make this post. I do not retract the arguments I have made and I am not ashamed of my passion for the subject or the Word, but I apparently am on a totally different frequency than y'all (No, that was not a put-down, maybe you are even relieved).
We don't seem to understand hardly any Scripture the same. We don't view a lively discussion the same. I have much more I would like to share and hear from you, but I am concerned that I am being perceived by my brethren in a totally different light than I am trying to present.
I have often been involved in church and coffee house and job-site and personal confrontations which got much more heated than this little chat we have had. And a strange thing happened. After we got through the fire of battle and the smoke cleared, we came to some understanding and saw God do great works in people's lives. But I do not want to be the cause of division and dissension. I would never be a stone of offense to someone. I know that my intentions and attitude are right and I am fully convinced that my arguments are sound. The fact that you do not agree with me is not a barrier to me, but I do not want to be misrepresented nor do I want you to think that I misrepresent you. And apparently that is the case. I do not run from fear of a battle (my daddy may be watching) but I will not be the unnecessary cause of ill feelings.
I still would love to meet y'all sometime. Check out our church web site and come see me some time if you get a chance. If I can ever serve you in some capacity, let me know.
UPWARD AND ONWARD IN JESUS,
PROMISELANDER ON HIGHER GROUND
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