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PAGE 26 DISCUSSION ON CHRISTIAN NONVIOLENCE
Response from Cadet
Dec 02, 2002 11:16:11 pm
You're a funny guy, promiselander. You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself and of your arguements. Please be careful not to present yourself as a know-it-all dealing with kindergarten kids. While it may be true, it still isn't the best policy. Like I have said before, I have stated what I believe, and I am no longer desirous of discussing whether or not I am doing something horrible by being in the military. It is not important to me to argue this, because I have already researched my beliefs, and could care less if you choose to agree or disagree. Being a very busy person, I no longer post often, not because I have been stunned by your arguements, but because I have to be careful in the use of my time in order to complete my assignments.
It has been an interesting discussion, however, and I congratulate you on more or less clearly stating your beliefs. While I disagree wholeheartedly with you, I still think you are a good man, if a little off the mark in my view.
It's hilarious how you seem to think that you know more about my chain of command than I do!?
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". . . it would cause trouble for Cadet if his superiors and instructors were to read his posts to me in this discussion."
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You obviously have very little understanding of how the military works. My instructors are much more concerned that I get a good grade on my Calculus paper tomorrow than whether or not I post petty arguements on this messageboards.
You seem to view me as some sort of slave of the U.S. government that it can order to do whatever it desires. This is true to a certain extent, but you are very wrong if this is indeed what you think.
All U.S. Army officers pledge to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign or domestic." If we are ever given an order that contradicts the Constitution, we are expected to disobey it. If we are ever given an order that is unlawful or unethical, we are supposed to disregard it. Our loyalty is the to Constitution of the United States which is in my opinion one of the best documents in the world. We do not pledge allegiance to the Army, the Government, or to the President. I have pledged to serve and protect this "Nation Under God."
You seem to not understand some of these things, which is understandable in a civilian. Remember, you are not in my shoes, so if these things bother you, don't worry about it. It must be very easy to sit in the sidelines telling me and others how I should run my life, but remember, I have to stand before God and give account for my actions, not before you or anyone else.
Anyways, have fun argueing. I have fun reading these posts. Some of them have interesting ideas. Keep up the good work.
God bless each one!
Chemistry, Calculus, English, Programming, here I come with bayonets fixed!!!
"I sought for the greatness and genius of America in her harbors . . . in her fertile fields and boundless forest; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good; and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great."
--Alex de Toucqeville
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THE NEXT FIVE POSTS ARE FROM CADET (WHO HAD NO TIME TO POST), QUOTING HISTORIC PERSONALITIES. IT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH THIS DISCUSSION, BUT I DON'T LIKE TO SHORTCHANGE ANYONE. THE LAST POST ON THIS PAGE IS PROMISELANDERS ANSWER TO THE PREVIOUS POST.
PROMISELANDER
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Response from usarmycadet
Dec 02, 2002 11:24:18 pm
The American's Creed:
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.
I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws; to repect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies."
--William Tyler Page of Maryland won a nationwide contest for the "best summary of American political faith," in 1917. The U.S. House accepted it as the American Creed on 3 April 1918.
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Response from usarmycadet
Dec 02, 2002 11:34:04 pm
Here are some interesting thought on our great nation. I'm glad we live in such a God-blessed country. I don't necessarily agree with all of the last ones, but they are interesting statements.
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern oursleves, to control oursleves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
--James Madison, chief architect of the Constitution of the United States of America
"The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constituions and laws. All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible."
--Noah Webster
"Good and evil, reward and punishment, are the only motives to a rational creature: these are the spur and reigns whereby all mankind are set on work, and guided."
--John Locke
"The world and the masses are and always will be unchristian, although they are baptized and nominally Christian. Hence a man who would venture to governm an entire community or the world with the gospel would be like a shepherd who should place in one fold wolves, lions, eagles, and sheep. The sheep would keep the peace, but they would not last long."
--Martin Luther
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Response from usarmycadet
Dec 02, 2002 11:40:29 pm
More neat quotes from great Americans and others:
It is impossible to govern . . . without God and the Bible."
--George Washington
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indisoluble bond, the principles of civil government witht the principles of Christianity."
--John Quincy Adams
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
--Edmund Burke
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Response from usarmycadet
Dec 02, 2002 11:44:35 pm
"Of all the dipositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensible supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labour to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician equally with the pious man, out to respect and cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions(sic) with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, where is hte security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligatin desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be concedded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
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Response from usarmycadet
Dec 02, 2002 11:46:48 pm
Sorry, the crazy messageboard messed up on me. Here's the finish to the previous post:
"It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular governmnet. Who, that is sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?"
--George Washington, Farewell Address
This speech illustrates the importance of Christian influence in our national politics.
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Response from promiselander
Dec 03, 2002 4:29:13 am
This is why they use to teach our men in the military to only give their name, rank and serial number when caught by their enemy.
Cadet said,
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All U.S. Army officers pledge to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign or domestic.
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I guess this means only if you are given directives to do so by your commanding officer. Because the fact is we are already under attack in our country by those who are enemies of the constitution and the Bible and morality.
There are 4000 babies being killed every day in our country, with the blessing of the State, often with the financial support of the State. I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
With the attack on our morals and American way of life being waged by the so-called public school system we now have more teenage deaths than we ever had to face in years passed and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Contrary to what Christian parents are sending their children to school for and why they pay their taxes, the children are being taught that it is OK to have two Daddys. Sodomy is being taught as an alternative lifestyle and the Bible position of loving the sodomite but hating sodomy is seen as a hate crime, and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Children are being brutalized and molested on the internet with the blessing of the so-called highest court in the land and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Churches are shut down on a regular basis because of so-called health and safety violations, zoning violations, building codes (and NO, you really don't want to start in on me about how these are good for us, because you don't know what you are talking about and I do, no brag, just fact) and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Christians are harassed, fined, jailed and molested because they have Bible Studies in their homes. They suffer the loss of jobs, homes and children because of their commitment to Jesus and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Though there are some who get legal help, which costs unbelievable amounts of money, there are many more who suffer for doing what the constitution guarantees them and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Children are being taken away from their Christian homes by the thousands (at least) because of trumped up charges and then put in the care of the State, where they are often abused and become a source of revenue for the child abuse industry and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Christians and Churches are coming under more and more regulations in their service to God and their fellow man (contrary to the constitution) and are being "priced" out of ministry because of State imposed fees and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Our children are being violated and corrupted daily in the schools and in the care of the State, contrary to the constitution and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
American morals are being attacked daily and our society is falling victim to foreign influences in the name of "free speech" and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Americans are losing their jobs, their homes and their futures to foreign powers and I don't see any of you protecting their constitutional rights.
Cadet said
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You're a funny guy, promiselander.
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Maybe so, but the things promiselander says are not so funny, but they are true. You can deny what I say all you want, but these things are happening in our country and they are happening against our constitution. A misinformation campaign does not do away with the truth of the matter. You may even convince most of the people that our constitutional rights are secure, but the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.
Cadet also said,
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You seem to not understand some of these things, which is understandable in a civilian
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Being military does not make you wiser, smarter or better informed about citizenship or anything else other than killing. I have lived near military bases and pastored military people longer than you have been alive, I know how well informed and educated the average warrior is. I know how much trouble the military man has in normal life and family life and civilian life. Military life focuses an individual on military life, not real life. Check out the domestic violence occurances, and the broken homes in the military.
Cadet also said,
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It must be very easy to sit in the sidelines
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If I am sitting on the sidelines, at least I am not suiting up and then just sitting in the middle of the field. I am not claiming to be the warrior who took an oath to defend our constitutional rights only to march around the parade grounds while our nation collapses all around us.
However, I am not sitting on the sidelines. I have my own assignment from my Commander in Chief. And it is no less demanding than that of the military. It is no less fulfilling than that of the military. It is no less effective than that of the military. It is no less honorable than that of the military. As a matter of fact, it is superior to that of the military or any other State assignment. Sometimes my assignment sends me into hostile territory which may even take my life. So don't talk down to me as a civilian.
I have pointed out that I believe there is a place for the sword of the State. I have pointed out my respect and appreciation for those who serve their country and I certainly do not take away from those who put their lives on the line. But to think that service in the military gives you a right to talk down to those who are not military, you have got to be kidding.
We have not even mentioned the way our country deals with citizens who take up arms against us (20 years, get real) or those who are part of the State, selling out our country for a few bucks and then living to write books and sell movies.
I agree with most of the quotes you posted concerning our history. I love my country. It is the greatest country in the world. But not for long if it doesn't change direction. To pretend that joining up and taking up arms is going to save America is absurd. If that is all it would take, we would have been saved long ago.
Cadet said,
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You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself and of your arguements.
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I am not in here promoting myself but what I believe to be the truth of God. I have taken your participation to be serious and based on your commitment to Jesus, so is mine.
Cadet referred to this discussion as
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petty arguements on this messageboards
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I am sorry to hear that is what you consider this to be. I hope others do not hold the same position. Yes, I have other pressing issues to deal with also, and I understand if you do not have time to do this, but to call our sharing together concerning our faith and our sevice to God as "petty arguments," I don't think so.
I do hope you do well on your tests. I hope you also do well in every other areas of your life. When you have more time, I hope you come back in here and share, if you don't consider it to be a waste of your time or simply an amusement.
Upward and Onward in Jesus
Promiselander (David, your brother in Christ)
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